Comments on: Co-founder of the New Zealand Republican Movement says: “Queen Elizabeth should abdicate her position as Head of the Commonwealth” http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/ The largest, global dialogue ever undertaken between the peoples of the Commonwealth about their association...This is the Commonwealth Conversation. Tue, 07 Feb 2012 02:33:43 +0000 hourly 1 By: Gale Oxley http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2953 Gale Oxley Thu, 24 Jun 2010 21:22:10 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2953 Some of these writers may have the correct idea when it comes to the respect and adoration for the symbolism carried by the throne. The capacity to differentiate the past sins of the British Empire started with the person sitting on the same throne of which the Queen has inherited, today. Calling on the Queen to make up for the past sins of her ancestry is a noble thing on her part. The question of loyalty to the throne is in question. How can the sovereign members of the Commonwealth look to England for an apology for those sins created in the past that have many people bitter against England today? many countries have gotten to republican status and maintain respect for the crown out of habit more than genuine love for England. What we need now is to share our responsibility for those past sins that we tend to perpetuate today. We need to remove barriers placed among our social groups that prevent others from entry. We need to become more Commonwealth. having done this we need to learn what England has taught us and help our weaker brothers and sisters in their governance. Increase a love for virtues and values. Honor and principles can be the mainstay of our institutions. We can go a long way with all these lessons from England, but hte healing has to begin now. Some of these writers may have the correct idea when it comes to the respect and adoration for the symbolism carried by the throne. The capacity to differentiate the past sins of the British Empire started with the person sitting on the same throne of which the Queen has inherited, today. Calling on the Queen to make up for the past sins of her ancestry is a noble thing on her part. The question of loyalty to the throne is in question. How can the sovereign members of the Commonwealth look to England for an apology for those sins created in the past that have many people bitter against England today? many countries have gotten to republican status and maintain respect for the crown out of habit more than genuine love for England.

What we need now is to share our responsibility for those past sins that we tend to perpetuate today. We need to remove barriers placed among our social groups that prevent others from entry. We need to become more Commonwealth. having done this we need to learn what England has taught us and help our weaker brothers and sisters in their governance. Increase a love for virtues and values. Honor and principles can be the mainstay of our institutions. We can go a long way with all these lessons from England, but hte healing has to begin now.

]]> By: Resa Chowdhury http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2883 Resa Chowdhury Sun, 21 Mar 2010 12:38:08 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2883 The Queen has not political power of the Commonwealth: she exists as a symbolic head. In the recent Commonwealth celebrations the only press interest in the UK was the colour of her dress. It is hard to think of someone who would carry the same symbolism as she does. Also a pointer: Queen Elizabeth II did not create the British Empire! Blaming the reigning monarch for her ancestor's mistakes and greed is ridiculous. It is also worth saying that the Queen is indeed almost universally adored, jsut look at her visits to Commonwealth countries: she is received with twice the adoration shown at home in the UK. The Queen has not political power of the Commonwealth: she exists as a symbolic head. In the recent Commonwealth celebrations the only press interest in the UK was the colour of her dress. It is hard to think of someone who would carry the same symbolism as she does. Also a pointer: Queen Elizabeth II did not create the British Empire! Blaming the reigning monarch for her ancestor’s mistakes and greed is ridiculous. It is also worth saying that the Queen is indeed almost universally adored, jsut look at her visits to Commonwealth countries: she is received with twice the adoration shown at home in the UK.

]]> By: Liz in NZ http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2882 Liz in NZ Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:12:42 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2882 @The real story of “Empire” was how the emerging capitalist and proto capitalist interests of Britain hi-jacked Westminster, the government and brought along the Monarchy for the ride in their global expansion plans. The role of the Manchester Liberals was especially apparent during the wars over the China trade and the establishment of Hong Kong. Simply put, the Empire was a creation of the politicans and the capitalists of the day, not the Sovereign. That Queen Victoria was reluctantly persuaded to accept the crown Disreali offered her as Empress of India is a known fact (more in the styling than terriories perhaps!), but to pretend that the monarchy was in any way behind this expansion of empire is not only nonsense but it does play hard and loose with the facts. mmm. the monarchy and the bankers always were and continue to be good mates in the creation of empire. The Bank of International Settlements is nowadays trying to clean up it's image "oh no we didn't have anything to do with financing both sides during world war 2 dearie!" Fact is the british empire working the old, law commerce and government trick graciously overseen by monarchy giving it respectability has led us seemlessly from chattle slavery to debt slavery. Wake up people and stop condoning your own slavery!! @The real story of “Empire” was how the emerging capitalist and proto capitalist interests of Britain hi-jacked Westminster, the government and brought along the Monarchy for the ride in their global expansion plans. The role of the Manchester Liberals was especially apparent during the wars over the China trade and the establishment of Hong Kong.

Simply put, the Empire was a creation of the politicans and the capitalists of the day, not the Sovereign. That Queen Victoria was reluctantly persuaded to accept the crown Disreali offered her as Empress of India is a known fact (more in the styling than terriories perhaps!), but to pretend that the monarchy was in any way behind this expansion of empire is not only nonsense but it does play hard and loose with the facts.
mmm. the monarchy and the bankers always were and continue to be good mates in the creation of empire. The Bank of International Settlements is nowadays trying to clean up it’s image “oh no we didn’t have anything to do with financing both sides during world war 2 dearie!” Fact is the british empire working the old, law commerce and government trick graciously overseen by monarchy giving it respectability has led us seemlessly from chattle slavery to debt slavery. Wake up people and stop condoning your own slavery!!

]]> By: 324wilson http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2832 324wilson Tue, 09 Mar 2010 00:29:28 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2832 NO NO NO! I can assure you that without this woman, this organization would not have survived at all. Remember, the Commonwealth almost broke because of the South Africa apartheid and most Commonwealth leaders were against Thatcher's policies. Who saved the day? Who came in the middle and saved this organization? The answer is: THE QUEEN!!! NO NO NO!

I can assure you that without this woman, this organization would not have survived at all. Remember, the Commonwealth almost broke because of the South Africa apartheid and most Commonwealth leaders were against Thatcher’s policies. Who saved the day? Who came in the middle and saved this organization? The answer is: THE QUEEN!!!

]]> By: James http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2830 James Mon, 08 Mar 2010 16:07:29 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2830 Their are certain benefits to allowing Queen Elizabeth II to continue as Head of the Commonwealth and granting the position to Prince Charles after her reign. Queen Elizabeth was the Head of State of most of the founding members of the Commonwealth of Nations and had already been trained and educated for the role that was expected in a multi-cultural and international context. Prince Charles has already had decades of experience on the world stage promoting democratic participation, civic involvement, religious tolerance and environmental sustainability. Even before those ideas became widely popular. The reality is that monarchies are no more inherently anti-democratic than republics are inherently democratic. Libya, North Korea, and Congo are republics but not democracies, while Sweden, Japan and Spain are monarchies yet simultaneously democracies. The structure in this case is not as important as the values that the Head of the Commonwealth must promote. Having the Head of State of the 16 "Commonwealth Realms" (all of which are democracies and constitutional monarchies) promotes simultaneously respect for tradition and cultural experience as well as the values of the modern Commonwealth of Nations. Democracy, Human Rights, Good Governance, the Rule of Law, Individual & Collective Freedom, Egalitarianism and World Peace. Queen Elizabeth II should continue as Head of the Commonwealth of Nations and Prince Charles should succeed her in due time. Their are certain benefits to allowing Queen Elizabeth II to continue as Head of the Commonwealth and granting the position to Prince Charles after her reign. Queen Elizabeth was the Head of State of most of the founding members of the Commonwealth of Nations and had already been trained and educated for the role that was expected in a multi-cultural and international context. Prince Charles has already had decades of experience on the world stage promoting democratic participation, civic involvement, religious tolerance and environmental sustainability. Even before those ideas became widely popular.

The reality is that monarchies are no more inherently anti-democratic than republics are inherently democratic. Libya, North Korea, and Congo are republics but not democracies, while Sweden, Japan and Spain are monarchies yet simultaneously democracies.

The structure in this case is not as important as the values that the Head of the Commonwealth must promote.

Having the Head of State of the 16 “Commonwealth Realms” (all of which are democracies and constitutional monarchies) promotes simultaneously respect for tradition and cultural experience as well as the values of the modern Commonwealth of Nations. Democracy, Human Rights, Good Governance, the Rule of Law, Individual & Collective Freedom, Egalitarianism and World Peace.

Queen Elizabeth II should continue as Head of the Commonwealth of Nations and Prince Charles should succeed her in due time.

]]> By: Patrick http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2293 Patrick Thu, 31 Dec 2009 06:04:18 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2293 "The point to be made is that the Queen is Our Monarch and likely she and her successors will be all that will be available in that line of work. Our ruler only does what we say and only says what we asked be said, and goes where we tell her to go......But for all those who don't want the Queen there are easily as many who don't want a President and even more who certainly would not want one if they knew who it would be. As you can readily see, I have given more thought to this subject than most and I have reached my own conclusion. God save the Queen." Dalton Camp, political columnist, August 23, 1994 “The point to be made is that the Queen is Our Monarch and likely she and her successors will be all that will be available in that line of work. Our ruler only does what we say and only says what we asked be said, and goes where we tell her to go……But for all those who don’t want the Queen there are easily as many who don’t want a President and even more who certainly would not want one if they knew who it would be. As you can readily see, I have given more thought to this subject than most and I have reached my own conclusion. God save the Queen.”

Dalton Camp, political columnist, August 23, 1994

]]> By: Mary http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2241 Mary Sat, 26 Dec 2009 02:02:19 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2241 Someone has already stated this somewhere else: we urgently need effective intergovernmental organisations. National regional and international organisatons of a large variety have been forming and it is all too crowded out there. For bystanders and oppressors it's alright. But the oppressed are terribly itching to see intergovernmental bodies much more effective so that they can get justice denied to them by their own governments. We cannot afford to have organisations for nostalgic purposes. Someone has already stated this somewhere else:
we urgently need effective intergovernmental organisations. National regional and international organisatons of a large variety have been forming and it is all too crowded out there. For bystanders and oppressors it’s alright. But the oppressed are terribly itching to see intergovernmental bodies much more effective so that they can get justice denied to them by their own governments.

We cannot afford to have organisations for nostalgic purposes.

]]> By: Mary http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-2240 Mary Sat, 26 Dec 2009 01:55:19 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-2240 At least for the following reason, the Queen should abdicate her position as Head of the Commonwealth: CMAG needs to be reviewed and strengthened By Maja Daruwala, Executive Director, Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, 20 October 2009: ''.... An issue for the CoW - flagged several times by many NGOs in the Commonwealth and repeatedly by the the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative – has been the need to strengthen the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group (CMAG) which presently consists of rotating Foreign Ministers of Ghana, Malaysia, Namibia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Sri Lanka, St Lucia, Uganda and United Kingdom. CMAG is the watchdog body of the Commonwealth. ... in the case of Sri Lanka, reports of large scale civilian deaths, impunity and stifling of human rights in Sri Lanka continued to emerge throughout 2008 and 2009 but CMAG has refused to put Sri Lanka in its agenda. The additional irony is that Sri Lanka itself continues to serve as a member of CMAG during this period for a third consecutive term contrary to the 1999 Durban Communiqué that limits a country to a maximum of two consecutive terms. ....'' Commonwealth is undemocratic! At least for the following reason, the Queen should abdicate her position as Head of the Commonwealth:

CMAG needs to be reviewed and strengthened By Maja Daruwala, Executive Director, Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative, 20 October 2009:
”…. An issue for the CoW – flagged several times by many NGOs in the Commonwealth and repeatedly by the the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative – has been the need to strengthen the Commonwealth Ministerial Action Group (CMAG) which presently consists of rotating Foreign Ministers of Ghana, Malaysia, Namibia, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, Sri Lanka, St Lucia, Uganda and United Kingdom.
CMAG is the watchdog body of the Commonwealth. … in the case of Sri Lanka, reports of large scale civilian deaths, impunity and stifling of human rights in Sri Lanka continued to emerge throughout 2008 and 2009 but CMAG has refused to put Sri Lanka in its agenda. The additional irony is that Sri Lanka itself continues to serve as a member of CMAG during this period for a third consecutive term contrary to the 1999 Durban Communiqué that limits a country to a maximum of two consecutive terms. ….”

Commonwealth is undemocratic!

]]> By: Ince Blundell http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-1783 Ince Blundell Thu, 03 Dec 2009 04:50:12 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-1783 @ lewis Holden - re: NZ The truth is that the monarchy isn’t and doesn’t ”work” for New Zealand. Our Parliamentary system does. Agree with you in that our inherited Westminster parliamentary system works well. It developed in conjunction with the monarch and the interplay between all its branches. We have our monarchy to thank for the stability that has developed. Why should NZ remove one of the key components of its successful system. It aint broke and furthermore, our monarchy works VERY WELL for NZ! @ lewis Holden – re: NZ The truth is that the monarchy isn’t and doesn’t ”work” for New Zealand. Our Parliamentary system does.

Agree with you in that our inherited Westminster parliamentary system works well. It developed in conjunction with the monarch and the interplay between all its branches. We have our monarchy to thank for the stability that has developed. Why should NZ remove one of the key components of its successful system. It aint broke and furthermore, our monarchy works VERY WELL for NZ!

]]> By: Cutters http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/2009/08/co-founder-of-the-new-zealand-republican-movement-says-queen-elizabeth-should-abdicate-her-position-as-head-of-the-commonwealth/comment-page-2/#comment-1775 Cutters Wed, 02 Dec 2009 22:48:32 +0000 http://www.thecommonwealthconversation.org/?p=844#comment-1775 What Savage and his fellow republicans fail to realise is what the Crown symbolises, its Ideal, which is as strong as that of any belief if it was not for the power hungry "political" clases. It is not a symbol of Imperial power, that is but a use of it, but a contract between the State and the Individual. It is the Rule of Law, and the Protector of all its subjects. The greatest gift of have the Crown as head of the Commonwealth, is that which insults or seeks harm upon that which is behoves the Crown, does this same act upon the Crown. It is as one and the same. The Monarch is just the person who has to live up to this. The Crown is in the best place to support the Commonwealth, and is almost the diplomat supreme. You question whether Fiji would listen to the Queen, would it dare not? Though another vote would be worth while when the present Monarchs time comes, as it is one that effects its future. That the Commonwealth has not yet become closer in terms of global policy is one to put to the national leaders who decide these things, not the figurehead whos job it is just to preside matters. Cant blame the ref in neither side can arrange a game of football. I to would love Her Majesty to step down from her role, she does not have the foresight or strength that her position requires in this age. Twice in this decade she has missed the opportunity to do what was right by her peoples, twice the ambitions of the greedy and the self interested have gone unabated. Time for King Charles, noted for his charitable works and ambition to be "defender of the faiths" to lead. (Even if he has quite an imagination) What Savage and his fellow republicans fail to realise is what the Crown symbolises, its Ideal, which is as strong as that of any belief if it was not for the power hungry “political” clases. It is not a symbol of Imperial power, that is but a use of it, but a contract between the State and the Individual. It is the Rule of Law, and the Protector of all its subjects.

The greatest gift of have the Crown as head of the Commonwealth, is that which insults or seeks harm upon that which is behoves the Crown, does this same act upon the Crown. It is as one and the same. The Monarch is just the person who has to live up to this.

The Crown is in the best place to support the Commonwealth, and is almost the diplomat supreme. You question whether Fiji would listen to the Queen, would it dare not? Though another vote would be worth while when the present Monarchs time comes, as it is one that effects its future.

That the Commonwealth has not yet become closer in terms of global policy is one to put to the national leaders who decide these things, not the figurehead whos job it is just to preside matters. Cant blame the ref in neither side can arrange a game of football.

I to would love Her Majesty to step down from her role, she does not have the foresight or strength that her position requires in this age. Twice in this decade she has missed the opportunity to do what was right by her peoples, twice the ambitions of the greedy and the self interested have gone unabated. Time for King Charles, noted for his charitable works and ambition to be “defender of the faiths” to lead. (Even if he has quite an imagination)

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